|
|
Post by g8rfan on Nov 29, 2023 18:05:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by tapsgator on Nov 29, 2023 22:58:11 GMT -5
Hope springs eternal, but realistically it’s much more likely that this was driven by news from inside the building (mertz return) than some inside info he got from sources in Willis Texas. I think lagway is solid, I think he’ll come and be a good soldier and watch graham mertz take all the snaps. He’ll learn nothing because he plays a different game than mertz (now if we actually tried to get a dual threat in the portal like Jefferson? That would be something but it would require objective analysis and that’s not part of the process whereas stability deal) and won’t have a QB coach with any track record of success with dual threat QBs. He’ll be playing for the guy who went 6-6 with the best physical prospect to ever play QB. Unless somehow some way things change, but I just don’t see it. Brown seems like a good kid and showed a lot more promise than I expected. He actually led our most effective offensive drives (other than the first drives) against a good defense that was playing something other than prevent. I hope he finds a better situation and gets a real shot |
|
|
|
Post by soflaisgatorcountry on Nov 30, 2023 7:34:09 GMT -5
I wish all the best to MBrown but i lol once more at the fanbase who fawned over MBrown (just like EJones) all bc "they could run". It was disgusting seeing how fans knocked Mertz in the preseason, continued to knock him early in the season and then remained silent towards the end of the season because they couldn't pretend he was the worst QB in the league. Once Mertz went down the MBRown hive on many sites immediately starting celebrating the greatness of MBrown and how "Finally" Fla will have a dual threat QB.
Problem is that "Dual Threat" QB isnt a dual threat rather than an inexperienced one trick pony that couldn't even throw a football as good as EJones. The fan base needs to accept that Mertz had a verty nice season and without him only the McNeese St game would be a guaranteed win, which is horrible for where Napier has the program currently.
I completely agree that MBrown was informed Mertz is coming back and Lagway is also coming to GVille so he transfered out. No problem at all and i hope he finds success wherever he goes (prob back to CMU to McElwain the "Shark Humper" who originally got his commitment and runs the same offense as Napier) because lets face it, he was never an SEC talent, just a player Napier took from his Sith Lord McElwain.
Overall there is the odd obsession with "Dual Threat" and/or "Running QBs" still despite CFB evolving from the days where a QB who can't throw efficiently (ASmith, VYoung, TTebow, PWhite, CNewton) can dominate defenses in the spread option offense. Defenses have adapted as even Saban spoke about that in the mind 2010s and its why we don't see too many traditional MLBs and OLBs in past eras and you have LBs today that look like bigger safeties. You must be able to pass the football, read defenses pre snap and make quick decisions and if one's legs help support that than success will be there. However if you can't do those things than your just a QB who cannot pass no matter how athletic you are and defenses will make your life hell as MBrown learned in the FSU game (Napier's play calling sure didnt help as he had nothing one his scripted plays were exhausted) which i do not put any blame on him for, he was put in a very tough spot.
Overall Mertz has been the second best QB at FLA post Tim Tebow with KTrask being #1. Give me more QBs like them while hoping a Dual Threat like DJ Lagway pans out because IF a guy like Lagway can actually be a passer than Fla just might have another gem at QB. I look forward to seeing the Mertz & Lagway combo in 2024 in the way the Leak & Tebow combo operate in 2006.
|
|
|
|
Post by bimigator on Nov 30, 2023 9:47:31 GMT -5
Gotta take umbrage with your comment about pass efficiency. Newton (6th all time, 178.2 career QBR), Tebow (13th, 170.8), and Smith (23rd, 164.4) are among the 25 most efficient quarterbacks since the stat has been tracked. White and Young weren't quite in that echelon (both around 200th), but they were still highly efficient passers with QBR around 145.
Recent Heisman winners Johnny Manziel, Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota, and Kyler Murray were very much dual threat, as were standouts Jalen Hurts, Justin Fields, and Hendon Hooker (all of these guys are in the top 25 most efficient passers ever).
As with anything, being "dual threat" doesn't make you a quarterback IF the threat isn't actually there. But it's a terrific toolset in the hands of a gifted QB.
|
|
|
|
Post by tapsgator on Nov 30, 2023 11:46:36 GMT -5
On Brown- I don't think anybody considered him talented enough to be the starting QB on an SEC contending team. Maybe some people got a little over-excited when he did some good things against Mizzou, but the average college fan isn't particularly educated and full of optimism. Especially headed into a rivalry game. Should we have had a package for him like Tebow or Emory Jones? Before seeing him play I wouldn't have thought so, but given his running ability and that we ran plays involving snapping a ball between somebody's legs to a RB and asking him to throw an option route I would say it is a conversation worth having. Especially with Lagway coming in, but I'm sure it's under analysis and evaluations.
Dual threats- There have been 2 QBs that weren't threats with their legs that have won NCs in the playoff era, Jake Coker and Mac Jones. They were both sneaky athletic and playing on an offense full of 1st round picks. It's a necessity in the game today. Even on elite teams at the point. Every team in the national title picture has a guy who can run (considerably) better than Mertz. The worst runner is the kid from Ohio State and he's also far and away the worst QB. This seems lost on Napier at times even as he brings in a dual threat and went after dual threats in the portal. It is odd, but that is par for the course. With Lagway hopefully the next big thing we should bring in an OC who has developed and deployed dual threat QBs. We won't.
Gutsy Graham the Checkdown Man- Not even close to the 2nd best QB since Tebow. Not sure what metric you can use to say this offense was as good as last years and you're discounting Franks when Johnson was on staff and we went 10-3 and finished 6th in the country. He is the 2nd best white QB since Tebow so there's that. I mistakenly said he was still Graham Mertz early in the season, that discredited him and wasn't accurate. He was everything anybody could realistically hope for and then some. Seems like a great kid, hard worker, had a really nice season. I hope he never takes another snap as the starting QB at UF. He will and hopefully he plays as well as he did this year. We'll suck because he's not a good downfield thrower, no threat with his legs, we barely called plays downfield to begin with and when we did Napier would get scared if it was close to an INT, and we can't get anybody out of the box. We were in a 7 team tie for 84th in the country in number of 30 yard plays this season, tied for last in the SEC with Vandy. 40 yard plays we were in a 10 way tie for 100th. That's with Mertz playing far and away the best football of his career. We saw it for a season, it doesn't work. When you complete 70% of your throws and are 9th in the SEC in PPG there is either a systemic flaw, personnel problem, or, more likely, both. We should be going after the big names in the portal hard. Again with a focus on dual threat guys for continuity with Lagway. We won't because, well I don't know why, but I'm sure its whereas consistency and repeatability deal or something to that effect.
I like Mertz, seems like he's a good teammate and leader, and I'd love to have him as a backup and kind of extra coach for Lagway and/or a more talented starter like KJ Jefferson. If he opted to go to a different team where maybe his physical limitations aren't as fatal I'd wish him the best of luck just like I'm wishing Brown nothing but the best, but he shattered his original glass ceiling and made it up to the 7th best QB in the SEC (would have been 9th if Ewers and Gabriel are taken into consideration), that would be good enough with a bunch of first round talent blocking for him and at the skill positions, but we keep our first round talent in a backup role and one with first round potential is only utilized in the first drive of the game and the second half of the 4th quarter.
|
|
|
|
Post by tapsgator on Nov 30, 2023 11:54:27 GMT -5
Sorry went off topic, Brown going into the portal because Mertz is coming back is pretty far from a big deal. My real concern is this repeats itself with Etienne when Montrell Johnson elects to come back for his senior season.
|
|
|
|
Post by bimigator on Nov 30, 2023 12:45:47 GMT -5
I don't understand why Etienne would come back for his 10 snaps per game or whatever. Makes me sad though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mojave Gator on Nov 30, 2023 14:10:03 GMT -5
I don't understand why Etienne would come back for his 10 snaps per game or whatever. Makes me sad though. Total squandering of talent. But hey, we will still have Desmond Watson. Wonder if he will reach 500 pounds by fall camp. |
|
|
|
Post by tapsgator on Nov 30, 2023 14:17:32 GMT -5
I believe he can do it, unwavering confidence in Big Des's weight gaining process and infrastructure. Meticulous attention to detail, consistency standpoint, repeatability, with the analysis whereas the evaluation constantly. Right? Look, Big Des is doing the things that make him Big Des, and there's a life lesson there, sometimes you don't thus fore you are looking at the big picture through the small telescope. Right? And if we do have the discipline for the weight gaining mechanism to where we make the thing go, we'll get Big Des one of those little hum-along scooter deals and he can use that to repeat his process faithfully when he needs to leave the field.
|
|
|
|
Post by SoTxCaiman on Nov 30, 2023 14:20:34 GMT -5
I hear Big Dez was pretty upset with the Spencer firing. Here's to hoping the portal door is big enough to fit him.
|
|
|
|
Post by tapsgator on Nov 30, 2023 14:29:14 GMT -5
As long as we keep the S&C staff intact we're gonna be alllllllllllllllllright
|
|
|
|
Post by SoTxCaiman on Nov 30, 2023 14:37:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by soflaisgatorcountry on Nov 30, 2023 19:22:47 GMT -5
Gotta take umbrage with your comment about pass efficiency. Newton (6th all time, 178.2 career QBR), Tebow (13th, 170.8), and Smith (23rd, 164.4) are among the 25 most efficient quarterbacks since the stat has been tracked. White and Young weren't quite in that echelon (both around 200th), but they were still highly efficient passers with QBR around 145. Recent Heisman winners Johnny Manziel, Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota, and Kyler Murray were very much dual threat, as were standouts Jalen Hurts, Justin Fields, and Hendon Hooker (all of these guys are in the top 25 most efficient passers ever). As with anything, being "dual threat" doesn't make you a quarterback IF the threat isn't actually there. But it's a terrific toolset in the hands of a gifted QB. Whatever the stats say, Tebow and Cam are not accurate passers. Cam was better (Pro and College) but neither had good touch nor could throw passes leading the receivers for YAC. Kyler Murray, Hurts, Fields (in college) and HHooker are all passers who can run. Im not knocking those types of QBs. They use their legs to help their passing game but they are passing QBs still. Correct on the dual threat needing to be there on both to be labeled such. Thus why i dont consider Max Brown a dual threat because he cannot pass at the Power 5 level yet (prob not his fault either). My overall issue is with people, not on this board, but many who just automatically assume a running QB is automatically better than a non mobile QB which is false. A QB who can pass is much more important than one who can only run however the best is that great blend of guys who have legs and can pass like your JHurts, KMurrays, Josh Allens etc or your passers who can run enough (ARodgers, RWilson, Jtravis, JDaniels) to make their passing abilities even more dangerous. |
|
|
|
Post by g8rfan on Nov 30, 2023 22:13:24 GMT -5
Hope springs eternal, but realistically it’s much more likely that this was driven by news from inside the building (mertz return) than some inside info he got from sources in Willis Texas. I think lagway is solid, I think he’ll come and be a good soldier and watch graham mertz take all the snaps. He’ll learn nothing because he plays a different game than mertz (now if we actually tried to get a dual threat in the portal like Jefferson? That would be something but it would require objective analysis and that’s not part of the process whereas stability deal) and won’t have a QB coach with any track record of success with dual threat QBs. He’ll be playing for the guy who went 6-6 with the best physical prospect to ever play QB. Unless somehow some way things change, but I just don’t see it. Brown seems like a good kid and showed a lot more promise than I expected. He actually led our most effective offensive drives (other than the first drives) against a good defense that was playing something other than prevent. I hope he finds a better situation and gets a real shot These guys talk. It would be naive to think they don’t. I don’t blame them in the current environment. They have each others cell phone numbers like we all do with our business contacts. You don’t need insider information anymore. These kids are on each other’s social media. |
|
|
|
Post by tapsgator on Dec 1, 2023 13:01:30 GMT -5
Hope springs eternal, but realistically it’s much more likely that this was driven by news from inside the building (mertz return) than some inside info he got from sources in Willis Texas. I think lagway is solid, I think he’ll come and be a good soldier and watch graham mertz take all the snaps. He’ll learn nothing because he plays a different game than mertz (now if we actually tried to get a dual threat in the portal like Jefferson? That would be something but it would require objective analysis and that’s not part of the process whereas stability deal) and won’t have a QB coach with any track record of success with dual threat QBs. He’ll be playing for the guy who went 6-6 with the best physical prospect to ever play QB. Unless somehow some way things change, but I just don’t see it. Brown seems like a good kid and showed a lot more promise than I expected. He actually led our most effective offensive drives (other than the first drives) against a good defense that was playing something other than prevent. I hope he finds a better situation and gets a real shot These guys talk. It would be naive to think they don’t. I don’t blame them in the current environment. They have each others cell phone numbers like we all do with our business contacts. You don’t need insider information anymore. These kids are on each other’s social media. Oh no doubt, I just think the main factor was probably Mertz saying he was coming back at his exit interview. Somehow that seems to be lost on the masses, exit interviews were on Tuesday, so that's why you had guys announce and/or refute rumors. Particularly guys who aren't eligible for the draft or aren't really draft-able. Educated guess: Mertz tells Napier he's coming back at his exit interview (because where else is he going to go? NFL isn't interested in a heavy footed guy who completes 20% of his throws that travel over 20 yards in the air and the contenders either have QBs or like the ceiling on other guys), Napier (ever the genial guy) asks him to hold off on announcing publicly so he can tell Max, which he does, Max makes his announcement a day early by mutual design. That's also why the rumor mill exploded on Wednesday about Etienne with a couple people leaking that he had already picked a destination and then retracting. Some people have this notion that Johnson may enter the draft, I really don't know what is driving that because I don't think he'd get drafted at this point and if he did it wouldn't be early. I think he might have led the team in drops, his pass blocking grade was not good, and he looked less explosive than last year. NFL doesn't have much market for a 200 lbs. short yardage back. My guess is he put his name in to the College Advisory Committee and based on this they'll probably say 5th-UDFA: www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Montrell-Johnson-RB-LouisianaSo he's coming back. I think Etienne not refuting rumors means he's as good as gone. Rumored top 2 are UGA (stays close to his brother, winning, national exposure) and LSU (goes back home, they'll build an offense and Heisman campaign around him). Clemson considered 3rd because his brother played there and they'll build around him. FSU is also close to Jax and for now a winner although without Travis they are a much lesser team. |
|
|
|
Post by g8rfan on Dec 1, 2023 14:44:42 GMT -5
I’m going to be so pissed if Etienne goes somewhere else and blows it up. Especially a rival. He’s gotta be the most underutilized skill player I’ve ever seen at UF. Ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rock Gator on Dec 1, 2023 18:35:31 GMT -5
I would be so sad if I saw ETN at FSU, but UG would be worse. Seriously though, if he's going somewhere, it should be where he will be featured. He could get shoved behind some 5* at UG and that's worse for him. FSU, Clemson, LSU? Maybe good. Hate to see him A) being undervalued in G'ville, and B) leaving for a rival. I like Billy Napier, but I like Trevor Etienne better.
|
|
|
|
Post by tapsgator on Dec 2, 2023 15:01:21 GMT -5
Gonna ask a question I asked myself about a month ago to see if someone else has a better answer: why? |
|
|
|
Post by Mojave Gator on Dec 2, 2023 15:57:59 GMT -5
You're going to have to pay Des NIL money for posting that. |
|
